03.06.07
He has the nerve to say this stuff about the most generous nation in the world’s history
The biggest problem with Ann Coulter’s CPAC stink-bomb was that it was a waste of much-deserved firepower against John Edwards, who says that Jesus would scorn America’s selfishness. If she’d called him a socialist, a phony, or a freedom-hater, I’d have been on board all the way.
Mr. Dings said,
March 6, 2007 at 7:20 pm
I would think that Jesus would scorn America’s selfishness. He was a penniless beggar and recommended that folks follow his lead, i.e. sell all and follow him. What if he drove demons into your herd? Wouldn’t you be on the horn to your lawyer? Christ, that man is uninsured.
Bentnotesmanhisself said,
March 6, 2007 at 8:29 pm
And how would human inventiveness – the inventiveness that has improved the species’ standard of living just in the last century to include the airplane, automobile, air conditioning, computers, laser surgery, medicines that have eradicated diseases that plagued mankind with regularity, whole new art forms such as cinema and recorded music – find such beneficial outlets if no wealth was being created, no capital formation going on?
Mr. Dings said,
March 6, 2007 at 10:01 pm
Just commenting on how Jesus handled things that is all. Read Gary Wills’ “What Jesus Meant.” I think he meant to love. And forgive. And not to get hung up about material things, that is all. He healed. With his hands. He fed the poor. And his apostles did too. My own personal take is that stuff is not that important to Jesus. He said the Kindom is here, among us. Kinda Taoist in that regard. That perennial philosophy. We are just modern Romans. Not all of us. Whatsoever you do to the least of his brethren, that you do unto him. He never gloried in riches. Turn on the tellie, find out what we are hypnotized about. You yourself, bloggie, have wondered about an economy that is driven by wants and needs for, well, stuff. There was a garden and there will be a garden. In that regard, Shake it, or rock to the Amish, perhaps. I am being Rousseauian here. Oh, the noble savage. You are free to move as the spirit moves you. I was taught to use these inventions, not to let them use me. Or consume me. But there is no denying that Jesus was some sort of socialist. Not my call what anyone else believes. Not my call at all. I try so hard not to judge. God knows I can be judged. Turning that other cheek, well, so hard as well. But to forgive. As I am forgiven. Blessed are the poor, the meek, the peacemakers, those who thirst and hunger for justice, those who mourn. What does that mean? And how hard is it, really? Just stating that I understand where Edwards is coming from. I like Lugar, I like Bayh, I love everybody! But killers. Liars. Those glory in blood. The selfish. Those who do not love. But I must try to turn the other cheek. That is what I think Jesus was about. We as a society have never really been about that. All have fallen short of the glory. But we can always go forth and sin no more. Not one who is holier than thou here. Are you?
Mr. Dings said,
March 6, 2007 at 11:25 pm
A monk, Gregor Mendel, unraveled the secret of heredity, for example. The greatest works have all been inspired by a higher power, not simply money. Perhaps that is one way we keep track, but, according to what I read and understand about Jesus, it is not the way his Father does. What if all that stuff just does not matter. And it Just gets in the way of what we are really about. I am not a big fan of trial lawyer pretty boy John Edwards, and I guess it was stupid to put his foot in his mouth, but I have always thouht Jesus would indeed scorn the selfishness in me and apparently that in thee. If that is what it be? The blogmeister himself has waxed phlosophical with wonder about an economy that runs on the apparently insatiable desire for “stuff.”
Bentnotesmanhisself said,
March 7, 2007 at 12:09 am
Well, ’stuff’ per se can get in the way of a spiritual perspective, but I’d rather have the elderly, frail and infirm of the world doing their sitting in air-conditioned environments. I’d rather have injured climbers on snowy mountainsides picked up by rescue helicopters. I’d rather have my local library house a collection of the magnificent musical accomplishments of humanity. These things require capital formation, which requires profit-making enterprises.
Mr. Dings said,
March 7, 2007 at 11:32 am
No argument there. Duh! What does that have to do with selfishness and greed? Those are distortions that get in the way. The Wright Brothers were very faith-filled folk. We have been arguing about what Jesus meant since he said it. He had to speak in parables to the people of his time. Remember though, a long long time in our view is but in instant in God’s. Actually time is likely an illusion, scientists are telling us. Just like the flatness of the landscape to our eyes and thinking. Quantum physics tells us matter is also an illusion. We have had colossal messes here throughout history and we are not done with them yet. Jesus told us it is in our hearts. Love. I tire of the presidential debates here now, 16 months before the primaries. It is all over $$$ right now. Gotta have it to run and win. It will be an incredibly important Presidential and Congressional election for certain. Perhaps the most critical election in world history, given all our stuff, some of which can destroy a large portion of humanity. Look to our own hearts. No one else can do that for you. Buddah and Francis of Assisi were rich men who sold all, giving up their “stuff.” What’s up with that?
Mr. Dings said,
March 7, 2007 at 11:38 am
Speaking of stuff, bloggie, where’s the killer economy you trumpeted a few short weeks ago. Latest news is a huge number of suspect mortgages the greed buckets sold that are in danger of default, bringing us all down.
Mr. Dings said,
March 7, 2007 at 11:40 am
Econ 101 tells us the stockmarket runs on greed and fear. Admirable concepts and qualities? But the broker might think he can garner an early retirement where he or she can live in peace. In a gated community.
Charred Leaf said,
March 7, 2007 at 1:31 pm
I believe Jesus would be pleased with a representative democracy with all equal under the law. I think He would not be pleased with a theocracy. I also think he would not be pleased with capitalism. Capitalism is a necessary evil. Necessary because humans are evil.
Bentnotesmanhisself said,
March 7, 2007 at 2:04 pm
Dings:
Did your Econ 101 class in college seriously tell you that? I’ve never seen an economics textbook that said “the stockmarket runs on greed and fear.”
Also, I’m intrigued by your grouping of stiockbrokers as an occupational class under this set of character traits. Are you saying:
a.) we need a whole new bunch of stockbrokers with less greed and more characcter?, or
b.) that corporations shouldn’t be publicly traded?, or
c.) that private ownership of business enterprises is so morally flawed from the get-go that it should be abolished and overt socialism instituted?
Charred Leaf said,
March 7, 2007 at 4:16 pm
Too strong…human nature is competitive and free-market capitalism can harness that competitiveness. Jesus was a human, though. So, competitive. Hmm?
Bentnotesmanhisself said,
March 7, 2007 at 5:13 pm
Who do you compete with, though, when you are the only begotten son of that which created everything in the universe?
Also, Charred, I’m posing the question to Dings because he seems to have some notion that stockbrokers as an occupational class are somehow detrimental to society. I myself have no such notion. Stockbrokers make it possible for millions of Americans to maintain investment portfolios and see to their financial well-being. And, by doing so, provide the capital that keeps business organizations robust and inventive.
Charred Leaf said,
March 7, 2007 at 6:14 pm
In addition to being the only begotten son of that which created everything in the universe, Jesus was a tradesman. Although, I imagine the only begotten part got His foot in the door.
Dings also seems to dislike gated communities.
Mr. Dings said,
March 7, 2007 at 7:00 pm
The big brokers received an average of 140K plus in bonuses last Christmas–twice what the average New Yorkers made all year. Then, less than 60 days later, bust. Go figure? Just bad luck?
Mr. Dings said,
March 7, 2007 at 7:02 pm
Ever seen the frantic look on these dudes faces when they are trading? Kinda unlike bliss. But, oh the energy….
Mr. Dings said,
March 7, 2007 at 7:04 pm
I had my bicycle stolen from a gated community My brother lives in one. No, but they and television may have something to do with the dearth of neighborliness these days. Do what you will. I value freedom too. Caesar lived in a fine gated community.
Mr. Dings said,
March 7, 2007 at 7:06 pm
Regarding trial lawyer John Edwards, we know what woe Jesus said was unto them. Are we all not Pharasees here, of our own device?
Mr. Dings said,
March 7, 2007 at 7:06 pm
That might better be spelled devise.
Mr. Dings said,
March 7, 2007 at 7:16 pm
He didn’t like commies but he wasn’t so sure of US either. Ronnie and he may have parted company on this issue:
But the pope hasn’t played favorites, and the West has come in for its share of criticism, too. During that first triumphal visit to the United States, he warned his hosts about the dangers of materialism, selfishness and secularism, and suggested lowering the standard of living and sharing the wealth with the Third World.
The message didn’t play well, and still doesn’t. But that hasn’t stopped the pope from insisting that materialism — he regards capitalism and communism as flip sides of the same coin — is not the answer.
“This world,” he says, “is not capable of making man happy.”
Prayer and faith can make man happy, he believes, and he leads by example. Indeed, he is so often in prayer that he is said to make his decisions “on his knees.”
He has been found kneeling on the ground in the middle of winter before a statue, and deep in prayer with his head resting on an altar. Even when not interacting with others, he has been seen moving his lips, apparently in prayer.
Mr. Dings said,
March 7, 2007 at 7:21 pm
Key words in your rap, blogmeister are “everything in the Universe.” Perhaps that is why Jesus, Son of that creator (as are we all) was not so crazy about selfishness and greed. It is axiomatic about what runs the market, just google it. It is like women saying men are only after one thing. And, you know, they are largely right.
Mr. Dings said,
March 7, 2007 at 7:27 pm
1,170,000 googlehits for “greed and fear and markets.” I have noticed a tendency of the blogmeister to question this poster and to pin him down on his imagery. But the poster will remain poetic until booted. Stockbrokers are a symbol of greed and fear. So are gated communities. I neither like nor hate them. They just are. Far be it from me to tumble walls. Yet. I will need a considerable coalition. Hey, it has happened over and over in this world. Which is too much with us. And which is not of His Father’s. Render to Caesar what is his. That we must do, with a knowing smile. Christ, is that turning the other cheek. Lowtaxblogman will agree there.
Mr. Dings said,
March 7, 2007 at 7:28 pm
Unless it is for guns. Let them have margarine.
Mr. Dings said,
March 7, 2007 at 9:35 pm
So, basically, of all the nicey nice things you would have called John Edwards other than, jokingly, a faggot (for which Ann Coulter has endured such grief), Jesus was, yes, basically a socialist, guess you would call him the Christ socialist party, many joined (to their peril, even after he left us with his Spirit, those firey tongues), some in power within his own religion of birth thought he was a phony and, although some of their descendants–the ones still awaiting the true Messiah who will establish his Kingdom (Israel) for his exclusive chosen ones–and he was perhaps a freedom-hater when it came to money changers in his Father’s house, but otherwise they were free to even crucify him, as he did not stand up for himself nor call in the angels.
Mr. Dings said,
March 7, 2007 at 9:36 pm
although some of their descendents bristled when Mel Gibson portrayed the Jews as having turned Jesus over to Pilate, which they did……
Mr. Dings said,
March 8, 2007 at 1:35 pm
Man, this is not only politics here, it is religion. And Daddy told me never to discuss them in public. We discussed politics a lot each morning while reading the paper. Religion is not a topic of discussion between us. Certainly not Jesus. The British army prohibits discussion of either as well. Not how to win friends and influence people. That leaves sex as a viable topic. Why not just do them all and say we didn’t?
Mr. Dings said,
March 8, 2007 at 1:48 pm
What’s this guy on?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOy3H4yyocQ
Mr. Dings said,
March 8, 2007 at 1:54 pm
Perhaps this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfFPPdMHers&NR
Mr. Dings said,
March 8, 2007 at 2:18 pm
And now I turn to Art, as Terrance McKenna suggests. Vita brevis, ars longa. There’s another topic that will perhaps lose friends and alienate people–Art. No wonder the blogger blogs. A safe haven under a pseudonym? Google “Mr. Dings” and whattya get? Hits to this blog. Top hit:
Mr. Dings Says: February 25th, 2007 at 10:26 am. This 6 foot 4″ tittie dancer once, in Evansville, … Mr. Dings Says: February 26th, 2007 at 2:09 am …
barneyquick.net/blog/2007/02/25/vickie-lynn-hogan-hugh-and-us/ – 16k -
He shall remain pseudononymous.
Poem: “Prayer Requests at a Mennonite Church” by Todd Davis from Some Heaven. © Michigan State University Press. Reprinted with permission. (buy now)
Prayer Requests at a Mennonite Church
Pray for the Smucker family. Their son Nathaniel’s coat and shirt were
caught in the gears while grinding grain. Nothing would give, so now
he is gone. We made his clothes too well. Perhaps this is our sin.
Pray for the Birky family. Their son Jacob fell to his death in the
granary. He was covered in corn before they could stop the pouring—
chest crushed by the weight, seed spilling from his mouth. We hope
something will grow from this, besides our grief.
Pray for the Hartzler family. Their youngest has left the church and no
longer believes that Christ died for her sins. She buys clothes at the
mall. Tongue pierced, nose as well. Her shirt shows her belly where a
ring of gold sprouts. We pray she will remember that her Lord’s side
was pierced, that His crown held no gold, only the dried blood of His
brow.
Pray for the Miller family. Last week their daughter, who lives in
Kalona, lost her baby at birth. Child only half-formed: head turned the
wrong way; heart laid on the outside of her chest; one leg little more
than an afterthought. Lord, help them know that life may come again,
that we are all made whole in heaven.
Pray for the Stutzman family. Their son fights in the war. We call him
back to the Prince of Peace, to our Savior who knelt to gather the
slave’s ear, brushed the dirt away, lifted it to the side of his flushed face.
May we leave no scars. May we ask no blessing for the killing done in
His name.
Bentnotesmanhisself said,
March 8, 2007 at 5:30 pm
I guess I need more help on making the connection between Terence McKenna’s (by the way, I’d never heard of him before) view of culture and John Edwards’ being ashamed of America. I’m pretty good at making conceptual leaps when I have to, but this one ain’t happening for me.
Mr. Dings said,
March 8, 2007 at 6:12 pm
I thought it fit because of how I thought the thread was, among other things, about whether America and its system is selfish. Those are the first words out of his mouth in the first link I posted. His answer is art. The link that followed kinda points him out as the hallucinogen-befuddled cook he might just only be.
And I did not read where John Edwards, who, incidentally is not my candidate of choice, especially this far out from the primaries, said he was ashamed of America. He said this, in an interview posted at http://www.beliefnet.com:
What parts of American life do you think would most outrage Jesus?
Our selfishness. Our resort to war when it’s not necessary. I think that Jesus would be disappointed in our ignoring the plight of those around us who are suffering and our focus on our own selfish short-term needs. I think he would be appalled, actually.
I think it can be reasonably inferred that he is ashamed of some of the behaviour of America as he even admits to being regarding his own behaviour, in so many words. I do believe he searched his soul following the untimely death of his son though. I have been there. Still am. No doubt President Bush does the same thing.
Ask the purported Vicar of Christ. Even the current one. The preceding one is up for canonization, so, you never know, he has to manifest a miracle. How do you pray for a miracle through (emphasize through) someone who is not even a saint yet? I think he did far more to end communism in Europe than Ronnie and Maggie did.
So, hopefully this explains the commentary linking Terrance McKenna. He smokes God. Or acts like and says he does. I thought he was addressing the issue of selfishness (greed), which was a main topic of this thread.
And, furthermore, Edwards made that response to a leading question:
What parts of American life do you think would most outrage Jesus?
Our selfishness. Our resort to war when it’s not necessary. I think that Jesus would be disappointed in our ignoring the plight of those around us who are suffering and our focus on our own selfish short-term needs. I think he would be appalled, actually.
Still, I haven’t seen anywhere near the furor created when John Lennon proclaimed the Beatles more popular than Jesus on March 4, 1966. He was right though. He didn’t say they were more important.
Mr. Dings said,
March 8, 2007 at 6:30 pm
For some local flavor, this from “Love Notes,” volume 13, Issue 2 of the Quarterly Publication of the Love Chapel Center, Columbus, Indiana. I picked up a copy at church:
“Service jobs and lower paying factory jobs are plentiful in Columbus. The majority of these jobs pay $6.00 to $9.00 an hour, are part-time, and have no benefits. At $9.00 an per hour, take home pay net–$1000.00 per month (based on 30 hours a week). The average rent for a 2 bedroom apartment is $500.00 per month. In addition the cost of utilities can run over $300.00 per month. Then there are miscellaneous expenses such as gas for the car, car insurance, food, toiletries, doctors visits, prescriptions, laundry and phone. Often these add up to more than the person makes. Throughout the year 2700 households in Bartholomew County receive help at least once. This is over 15% of the county population. Over 60% of these who seek help from Love Chape ae working but just to make ends meet. A cut in hours, shut downs, illnesses, unexpected car repairs, school expenses, and more create the need for emergency assistance that is provided by Love Chapel. The others are elderly, physically disabled, mentally disabled, or limited on education and skills.”
Class envy?
PLEASE GIVE TODAY if so moved. The Salvation Army is another great Christian charity, founded by Methodist William Booth. Christ in Action. Give of your time, talent and treasure there, if so moved. We are all just visiting here. Our destiny lies elsewhere.
Mr. Dings said,
March 8, 2007 at 6:54 pm
And, this from a book I am reading and have quoted in other threads before, “The Tao of Meditation: Way to Enlightenment” by Tsung Hwa Jou:
Chuang-Tzu understood and expressed the paradox of the identity of opposites. He used philosophy as a means of reaching the people of his time and culture with that message. Philosophy, poetry, and other intuitive, holsitic ways of viewing the world have always been close to the mainstream of the Chinese world view and civilization. Although these have also been important in the West, the individual person in Western society has historically had a more practical, scientific and analytical perspective. In recent generations, we in the West have lived in the context of an increasingly technological culture, in which it is more and more difficult for any one man to achieve an overview or comprehend the total picture. For someone to reconstruct a telephone or a television, for example, he must undergo sophisticated training, and he would consequently have less energy to invest in his business of his study. A professional who wishes to keep up with rapidly advancing knowledge and techniques must sacrifice time he might have used to broaden his understanding of the other aspects of his life. The engineer may not be able to spend much time with literature. The sociologist may have neither time nor inclination to study physics. All of these are equally valid ways of perceiving the world. Unfortunately, this increasing need for specialization, in sports and in leisure pasttimes as well as in business, can isolate every man from his neighbor, if he becomes convinced of the “rightness” of his viewpoint and the comparative ignorance of other men. If society were a building, it is as if every person was looking out of a different window and each feels his view to be the best. The same is the case with knowledge. Eastern philosophy is a window and Western science is another window. Maybe we can say every viewpoint is right. We can also say that each viewpoint is only partial, and therefore partly not right. Yet both viewpoints exist in the same building, within the system whose construction is based on our senses.” (pp57,58)
This might be flying in the face of the blogmeister’s views on ambiguity which he believes is tearing at the fabric of his window dressings. Jesus was unambiguous when quoted as saying we cannot serve two masters: God and Mammon. We will either love the one and hate the other or vice-versa. I fall short of this glory, for certain. Hope this is considered apropos to the discussion at hand. In other words, “You got your troubles, I got my ha hine….” So do both Ann Coulter and John Edwards and all the other 6 Bil of us here. I do believe God has His/Her/Its view of it all and Jesus knew, and many followed, some the best they knew how. Some modeled themselves after him, as he suggested. The saddest story in the NT, for me, is the rich young man who asked the Lord what he should do to merit the Kingdom. Jesus’ reply was to “sell all and follow Him.” I sure can’t do that. My goods would have to be taken from me by force. Sell all? Was something lost in translation? Are we not generally too much “with” the world? What would a Buddah say?
The Four Noble Truths
1. Life means suffering.
2. The origin of suffering is attachment.
3. The cessation of suffering is attainable.
4. The path to the cessation of suffering.
Isn’t that what Jesus meant too?
And I garner you’ll counter that I am going all over the place with this, and I am, intentionally. Just a fool. Trying to scorn the selfishness in me. Only me. The only person I can begin to have control over.
Thank you for providing me this forum. It replaces my journaling for spiritual growth some days.
Bentnotesmanhisself said,
March 8, 2007 at 8:05 pm
Well, that’s what BN is here for – to get us to examine the core matters of huma nexistence unflinchingly.
Mr. Dings said,
March 9, 2007 at 3:35 am
Now, this is so moral. From a caster of boulders
Hot off the presses:
WWJD?
By BEN EVANS, Associated Press Writer
9 minutes ago
WASHINGTON – Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich acknowledged he was having an extramarital affair even as he led the charge against President Clinton over the Monica Lewinsky affair, he acknowledged in an interview with a conservative Christian group.
ADVERTISEMENT
“The honest answer is yes,” Gingrich, a potential 2008 Republican presidential candidate, said in an interview with Focus on the Family founder James Dobson to be aired Friday, according to a transcript provided to The Associated Press. “There are times that I have fallen short of my own standards. There’s certainly times when I’ve fallen short of God’s standards.”
Gingrich argued in the interview, however, that he should not be viewed as a hypocrite for pursuing Clinton’s infidelity.
Mr. Dings said,
March 9, 2007 at 12:54 pm
Now my faith is really shaken, this just in on the heels of the above:
Rarely a falsetto:
Updated:2007-03-09 07:50:49
– Pope Benedict was opposed to Bob Dylan appearing at a youth event with the late Pope John Paul in 1997 because he considered the pop star the wrong kind of “prophet,” Benedict writes in a new book issued on Thursday.
Dylan a False ‘Prophet,’ Says Pope Benedict
Current Pope Did Not Want John Paul to See Singer in 1997
By PHILIP PULLELLA, Reuters
VATICAN CITY (March
Mr. Dings said,
March 9, 2007 at 1:14 pm
What’d your daddy think of this deal, bloggie? WWJD?
It was on this day in 1933 that newly inaugurated President Franklin D. Roosevelt called a special session of Congress and began the first hundred days of enacting his New Deal legislation.
It was the Great Depression. A quarter of the American workforce was unemployed. The prices for industrial goods and agricultural products were falling. There were breadlines in every major city for all the unemployed and hungry. Thousands of people roamed the country on freight trains looking for odd jobs and handouts. Banks were failing at an unprecedented rate, and millions of Americans had lost all or part of their savings.
So people were shocked by Roosevelt’s cheerful demeanor when they saw him just before his inauguration. He was facing one of the most difficult domestic situations in the country’s history, but he seemed excited about it. At his first press conference, on March 8, 1933, the reporters were surprised that the new president actually talked to them. Almost all previous presidents had refused to talk off the cuff with reporters, but Franklin Roosevelt didn’t mind answering all kinds of questions about what he planned to do for the country’s problems.
And then on this day in 1933 he called Congress into session. He had Democratic majorities in both houses. The first piece of legislation the President proposed was the Emergency Banking Act. Even though no one had a chance to examine it in detail, the bill passed after forty minutes of debate. For the next few months, bills were passed almost daily. Among the new federal programs created were the Federal Emergency Relief Administration, which distributed half a billion dollars to the poor; the Civilian Conservation Corps, which employed people to work on forestry projects; the Public Works Administration, which employed people to build bridges, dams and roads all across the country; the Tennessee Valley Authority, which built and maintained dams on the Tennessee River, controlling flooding and providing cheap energy; and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, which provided for the first insurance of banking deposits.
Mr. Dings said,
March 10, 2007 at 4:17 am
Stay Positive
“I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.” (John 16:33)