A dialogue

It’s one I’ve been having in my head all day.  Let’s label the participants A and B.

A: The thing that puts me off about conventional Christianity is this notion that I’m sullied by sin from the get-go.  That all humannkind is.  Orginal sin, Calvin’s doctrine of the Total Depravity of man, all that stuff.  I’m a pretty good guy.  On balance, I’m inclined toward good. I consciously strive to cultivate virtue within myself.  What is this sin business all about, anyway?  It looks to me like human behavior falls along a continuum from evil to good.  You just get the ones at the bad end of the spectrum to get with the program and stop being jerks.  That’s the end of the story, isn’t it?

B: What does the Bible have to say about how you should live?

A: Oh, for heaven’s sake.  Pun intended if you care to take it that way.

B: Just trying to answer your question about “this sin business.”

A: Alright, then.  Well, let’s see.  Here in Deuteronomy 5 is The Ten Commandments.  And in Deuteronomy 6 is The Great Commandment.  And here in Matthew 5 it says to love your enemies.  Here in 1 Corinthians 7 it says that if you can’t resist the urge to touch someone of the opposite gender, marry her or him and rule over each other’s bodies.  Hmmm.  Now I’m finding all kinds of places where it says to do this and not to do that.

B: And do you follow these various commandments, and admonishments to the letter?

A: No, certainly not.

B: How does that play out in your life?

A: Well, I think there’s a pretty direct correlation between that and the fact that sometimes I feel empty inside, alone, confused.

B: You have lots of friends and loved ones who care about you.  Could any of them give you perfect advice as to a way out of those feelings?

A: Well, no.  They fall prey to them, too.  In fact, everyone does.

B: So what kind of being could provide such guidance?  Have all your years of meditation and materially induced mystical states provided such guidance?

A: They have not.

B: How about God, as depicted in the Bible?

A: Well, dang it, nowhere in the Bible does it once and for all say, “In a nutshell, here is the essence of what or who God is, fully defined in the way that water is defined as two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen.”  This God of the Bible, you can’t see him!  It’s absurd to invest energy in communicating with a being no one has ever seen.

B: Moses saw him.  He conceived a baby with Mary.

A: Well, a lot of good that does the millions of us who have come down the pike in the thousands of years since.  How can I learn more about the nature of this God no one can actually see?

B: May I suggest this Bible that has figured so prominently in our conversation?  A good deal of it is in fact devoted to describing Him, providing indications of His nature.  Psalms is full of such stuff.  Rock and Redeemer, Most High who knows the number of hairs on your head.  Likewise the Gospels: a Father who loves you in spite of your waywardness.

A: But in what sense is this Bible the word of this God?  I mean, what did the inspiration that infused the humans who wrote it down - over the course of many centuries, I might add - look like?  What is the scientific explanation of how that happened?

B: You and I may not know the details of that, but there are only two possibilities: either they really were inspired by God, or they had some set of lesser, merely human motives - in other words, they were jiving us.

A: Ah, I still can’t take literally certain things.  I’m just not a fundamentalist.  The most glaring example of that is the six-day creation depicted in genesis.

B: Fine.  You’re in solid company.  C.S. Lewis doesn’t do creationism, either.  But does that get you out of either adhering or not adhering to the broad and consistent outline of what the Bible tells us about God and our relationship to Him?

A: No.  There is indeed a coherent story that is told throughout the course of the sixty-six books, even though they were written under disparate circumstances.  I’ve definitely thought enough about this to see that the New-Thought-there-is-no-sin-or-need-for-redemption denominations are glossing over what they want to in the Bible, and in some cases adding stuff to it.

B: Anything else still bugging you?

A: Well, the fact that there’s no way I can comply to the letter with all the laws and instructions God has handed us in this Bible.  By ten o’clock every morning of my life, I’ve taken his name in vain.  I cut all kinds of moral corners.  Not a day goes by that I don’t see some fellow human being of the female persuasion and think to myself, Man, what bliss she would be in the shower!

B: Again, you’re in good company.  There’s a few billion of us throughout history who are in the same boat.  Think about this: the only perfect person who ever existed suffered the full consequences of everything we’ve ever done.  We’ve been sort of sleazing along, kind of getting away with our rebellion against He who created us, in the sense that we rise to face another day, get our three squares and such.  That one perfect guy, though, on a Friday afternoon that, everywhere else in the world besides that hilltop at Calvary, proceeded much like any other Friday afternoon, took the full heat for us and made it all okay with The Big Guy.

A: Wow.  da–

B: Don’t, man.

11 Responses to “A dialogue”

  1. Mr. Dings Says:

    If you recoil from the literalism of the proof-texting preachers, here is a measure of both liberation and exhilaration. Even the short introduction is a tour de force of common sense all by itself. Brilliant!

    http://www.amazon.com/Bible-Biography-Books-Changed-World/dp/0871139693/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203539670&sr=8-1

  2. Bentnotesmanhisself Says:

    Looks intriguing. The reviews cover the entire spectrum of assessments, don’t they?

  3. Mr. Dings Says:

    B. Have all your years of meditation and materially induced mystical states provided such guidance?

    A: They have not.

    C>Are you throwing in the towel then? It’s a long long journey; might take 5 or 10 years of daily meditation to even begin to understand what meditation is, let alone guidance or insight.

    “All human evil comes from a single cause, man’s inability to sit still in a room.”
    Blaise Pascal (1623-1662. Following a mystical experience in late 1654, he abandoned his scientific work and devoted himself to philosophy and theology.)

  4. Bentnotesmanhisself Says:

    Well, no. Just saying it hasn’t provided the big shebang yet.

  5. Mr. Dings Says:

    It’s almost cliche’ but isn’t “it” in the journey, not the destination? And are we not all capable of being inspired by God, or at least improving our conscious contact with God? The world’s only perfect person fasted for 40 days in the desert, was tempted by Satan, sweated blood in the Garden. God knows what he did for the nearly 30 years before he began his “ministry.” It don’t come easy. I’d start with His Spirit. That’s something he promised to leave us all who are but open to receive it.

  6. Mr. Dings Says:

    Methinks the idea of original sin fits with karma. Action. Cause and effect. Right now, right here, as living, breathing humans, we have the opportunity to change, grow, learn, love. Kierkegaard said we’re angels that shit. Gurdjieff opined the bigger the devil, the bigger the angel. We are all receivers, if we are attuned. Seek and you will find. And it ain’t over till it’s over.

  7. Bentnotesmanhisself Says:

    Lewis says that the worse a person is, the more he needs to repent, but, ironically, the less able he is to do it. Which is what is prompting me to take another look at what the Nazarene did for us on that Friday afternoon.

  8. Mr. Dings Says:

    Right, repentance comes from surrender. I can’t, God can. “It”, like many things we do not look at, and therefore do not see, is right here under our noses, always beckoning us. Simple solution, complex cartography. Seek and you will find. It ain’t over till it’s over. And judge not lest ye be judged? What does it matter how much a person needs to repent? Lewis was an absolute moralist, as I perceive you to be as well, bloggie. Who’s the judge here?

  9. Bentnotesmanhisself Says:

    “Absolute” - one of my favorite words. Should get used in more contexts and conversations.

    Of course, almighty God is the judge.

  10. Mr. Dings Says:

    Why don’t you make a play for King?

  11. Mr. Dings Says:

    You sure that’s not spelled Absolut?

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